> In my limited experiments Qwen 3.5 (maybe 3.6 is loads better)
1. Maybe you should tell us what those limited experiments are.
2. Maybe you should actually try 3.6 because it's huge difference in most cases. Don't forget to tell us quants and don't forget to tell us scope.
3. Maybe actually show us data compared to frontier models instead of this... vibe comment. Pretty tired of this kind of comments on HN that doesn't require logic or evidence. Just vibes. Like the pelican riding a bicycle crap that everyone has taken for granted but has no objective way of assessing goodness.
Do you know how much VRAM/unified is needed for the 27B model, which is generally regarded as better between the two compared in the article, is needed with little to no KLD loss and at 256k context?
Also, once you worked out how much memory is needed for that, maybe tell us how much a non-Apple system that you can run that (probably similarly or faster) would cost?
And when you have answered that, can you tell us how much privacy costs? Maybe also tell us how private OpenRouter is?
Edit: looking at other replies that are basically pointing out the same thing I did, I guess it's my wording. It's frustrating that people who misinform others in some nicely packaged ways or just simply uninformed get to keep doing that if they sound nice. Thanks.
> maybe tell us how much a non-Apple system that you can run that (probably similarly or faster) would cost?
Ryzen AI Max 395+ with 128GB of unified memory can be found around $3-4k.
But 27B isn't that large, either, especially if you are ok with the quantized models. So this laptop choice seems to more be a "because they had it" rather than "this is what's necessary for this particular workflow"
That's my point. You can run Qwen3.6 27B with MTP and whatever else you want to bolt onto it at 256k context for much less than even a Ryzen AI Max 395+ with 128GB would cost. Even unquantized you don't need 128 GB so given your comment and the downvotes maybe I didn't word my original comment properly for this?
Really don't mean any offence to your comment because you probably mean well but I have little tolerance for the "reasonable"/fence-sitting kind of comments on this kind of issues.
If they really cared to much about empowering people creating things for other people, like others have pointed out, they should just ban it.
Sure, in reality it's not so easy to just ban AI content because there is a spectrum of it and it's really not a clear-cut problem.
But your stance can be clear-cut, and in this messy world where there is no perfect solution one way or the other, your stance matters even more. You could either be seen as a fence sitter who allowed slop to happen, or someone who stands with human creativity battling against shitty people and their slop.
Please stop this kind of fence-sitting reasoning if you care about people.
I'm not sure which part of my comment comes across as fence sitting to you, but to clarify:
- I think there are good and useful ways to use AI in art creation
- I also think that AI (especially end to end creation of full songs) is a massive problem for both content moderation and business model aspects of this type of platform
- I don't think a blanket ban on AI in <Field X> is a good idea (even a bad idea in almost all cases)
You can disagree with these three points and that's fine, but it's not fence sitting when someones position isnt 100% one way or the other
> I think both the AI use and the alleged extraction of knowledge of design and craft are better explained by, like, "the job got crazy popular, the labor force multiplied, a lot of less passionate people got involved, and then some solutions were found"
I don't understand the logic in this. Before AI, if a job was crazy popular and a lot more people got involved passionate or not, it's still _people_ doing things at the rate limit of _people_? Even people with disproportionately large amount of resources to do things they still had to hire the _people_ who can do the job to do it? How is that anything close to the issues presented in the article?
Passion also has nothing to do with being professional. You can do a job extremely well by being professional but not at all passionate about it, and you can be extremely passionate about something but absolutely terrible at doing it as a job. The labor force requires you to be professional, not passionate. Great if you get to be both because you are the lucky few.
If taking the sentence out of context wasn't intended, you may want to (re)read the article because 'and now suddenly "because AI" they don't?' isn't even remotely close to what is being said in that paragraph and the one after.
The entire post is the same topic repeated ad-nauseam that "deskilling" concentrates labor into roles with less scope so that automation can take over.
I'm saying the opposite has been happening for decades. The only people who think that work is getting less skilled are on the far extremes of the political spectrum. They're both allergic to work and dream up disaster or utopia to get their way.
I still can't really tell if you re(read) the article properly and it seems like you are just making assertions against what doesn't fit your _beliefs_ and just label anything that seems to deviate even just slightly with labels like "repeated ad-nauseam", "far extremes of the political spectrum", etc., which isn't fun to engage with.
Good work takes skill. The tech industry long ago realized that good work is not required to stay in business. The industry is overflowing with mediocre workers who feel little pressure to master their craft.
SVG generation is a good test because it's extremely easy to subjectively assess with visual reasoning where humans are strong. However, pelican on a bike specifically may be overused at this point.
I'm not an AI skeptic but I'm skeptical of the intent of this article. It makes great claims about agent-first engineering and tries to make a real case based on a real product, with real users, and a real team that's been growing — all without even saying what was built or showing it, just like every other AI hype article.
At the time we wrote the article we hadn’t released the product and weren’t ready to talk about it. It was an internal prototype that looked very much like the current Codex app.
You have the source to everything you use in life right? You can make your own car, patrol, shampoo, grow your own food, build your own house, wire your own electricity (and generate it), can switch to having your own reserve of drinking water anytime and plumb it, etc.
Nothing against you personally but that kind of logic is getting old. I get it that you don't trust corporations but asserting it like open source projects don't do rug pulls, and like having the source because you can spin up the version you even if they screw you over means it's safe is missing the point of how we all function as a society.
The problem isn't open source or corporations to begin with or someone made the mistake of trusting someone who seemed trustworthy to begin with, and people who take the opportunity to push their own beliefs and narratives by capitalizing on emotional situations like this instead of finding constructive ways to make things better are the worst.
If I woke up one day to find some corporation had snuck in overnight and subbed out my shampoo for their newest scent without asking, then yeah I'd be looking for more reliable options for that too
The car is a better example. I'd be infuriated if my car received an OTA that made it play ads or something. I have to trust that the company won't do that (or buy a car that doesn't have OTA capability).
> You can make your own car, patrol, shampoo, grow your own food, build your own house, wire your own electricity (and generate it), can switch to having your own reserve of drinking water anytime and plumb it, etc.
*can* is a lot better then *do*. I would prefer that all of these processes be documented such that new sources of these products and services can be created if need be. That's really what having the source for a given piece of software is; the documentation required to reproduce it.
Imagine if the process of generating electricity was a big secret and controlled by a single company. That company would be unreasonably powerful, no?
I trust corporations enough that i do pay them to provide me with goods and services. I do not trust them enough to set them up as the only viable source for goods and services.
I think that's a generally good approach and a fantastic example of framing things professionally but also doesn't fix the core of the problem, which I see problematic if leadership of an engineering-focused company doesn't understand immediately.
Luck with your employer also plays a big part in how you approach this too.
Maybe just don't do that? It's never helpful in good-faith discussions and just indicates a lack of empathy and maybe a lack of understanding of the actual issue being discussed.
> So, you haven't identified any actual problems with them being on social media though.
The problems GP raised seem pretty clear to me. Could gives us some examples of what you would consider to be "actual problems" in this context?
> Just that kids are doing something new and sometimes scary...
Any sane parent wouldn't send their kids to learn to ride a bicycle on the open road and without any supervision. You'd find a park or an empty lot somewhere, let them test it out, assess their ability to deal with potential dangers and avoid harming others at the same time, and let them be on their own once they are able to give you enough confidence that they can handle themselves most of the time without your help.
The problem with today's social media for children is that that there is no direct supervision or moderation of any kind. Like many have pointed out, social media extends to things like online games as well, and the chance that you will see content that are implicitly or explicitly unsuitable for children is extremely high. Just try joining the Discord channels of guilds of any online game to see for yourself.
Not all things new and scary come with a moderate to high risk of irreparable harm.
1. Maybe you should tell us what those limited experiments are.
2. Maybe you should actually try 3.6 because it's huge difference in most cases. Don't forget to tell us quants and don't forget to tell us scope.
3. Maybe actually show us data compared to frontier models instead of this... vibe comment. Pretty tired of this kind of comments on HN that doesn't require logic or evidence. Just vibes. Like the pelican riding a bicycle crap that everyone has taken for granted but has no objective way of assessing goodness.