Even on normal keyboards I don't use it, and they are annoying because they make the mouse position awkwardly more to the right than it should be healthy for the arm (I really envy left handed people, they don't have to deal with this).
And it is next to impossible to get a keyboard without the numpad, fortunately I found two such keyboards and I have one at work and one at home (Logitech K310 and Microsoft Sculpt).
And I haven't seen in live any person that uses numpad, I always thought it is used by accountants only (and those that don't want to use two hands to enter numbers).
FYI: Keyboards without the numpad block are called "TenKeyLess Keyboards" (sometimes it is abbreviated to TKL acronym) or 87/80% keyboards.
In short research, I found they are hundreds of them available on Amazon, Aliexpress. However, most of them have mechanical switches[0][1], some of them have conducted switches (like Topre[2]) and it is very rarely to see cheap, typical office-use TKL keyboards made by companies like Microsoft or Logitech but Matias have at least sell one model [3].
It might be handy to read a short guide [4] of keyboard naming by their sizes, whether you will look for new keyboard in future.
Also, numerical operations / form filling while consuming liquid or holding a pet. It's surprising the number of times the ability to perform even a subset of tasks while not having both hands to dedicate has allowed me to maintain focus and interest instead of stopping dead and having to spool back up slowly.
> Because that's where it should always be.
I must admit, I have yet to figure out how to maintain this discipline while whiteboarding, let alone walking, or sleeping.
Going from qwerty to number pad is a context switch. Once you've paid the price for the switch your middle finger rests above the 5, and you can quickly enter numeric information.
Numbers on the top of qwerty are good for incidental numbers when entering text, but around 5 consecutive digits is enough for me to move.
Are they useful enough to add to a laptop keyboard? Probably not.
It still amazes me why so many people like mechanical keyboards, I hate them because they are loud and require much more key travel to type - and that slows me down a lot.
I only use keyboards that have low-key travel and are silent - basically anything that resembles laptop keyboard.
EDIT: Sorry for sounding a bit harsh, but keyboard-without-numpad != mechanical keyboard, which are quite niche, I wasn't aware that a niche product has a also niche variation - lack of numpad :)
Try looking into the "silent" keyswitch variations, e.g. Cherry MX Silent Reds.
The strength of the mechanical market, the reason why it's getting bigger, is not that it's mechanical and "clicky"(that's the stereotype), but that it's customizable. All of it. Case, PCB, keyswitches, keycaps, stabilizers. If you don't like the switches stock, they can be relubricated and modded with rubber O-rings. If you want a dampened response the stabilizers and keycaps can be heavier. The hobby has developed from that over the last decade - being able to take the platform and "own" it.
Yes, you can get a low-profile scissor switch design and it'll be quiet and function for years. But it will also be unmaintainable and resist even basic cleaning.
The trick is, on a scissor switch (or butterfly) keyboard the key travel is so short there is no really hitting bottom. Yes, from a mech keyboard perspective you "hit bottom" every time, but I find it a superior typing experience over trying to catch that halfway point when the key is actuated.
I have to say low profile blue switches offer quite a nice typing experience though, quite comparable with scissor switches.
Most laptop keyboard are tenkeyless so that wouldn't make sense. They also listed two discrete/separate keyboards as examples so that further enforces that they were not talking about laptops.
I'm left handed but can only use a mouse right-handed, so I can see how a numpad could be an issue, however;
> And it is next to impossible to get a keyboard without the numpad
Every single keyboard in my home, would like to disagree with you. I have at least a dozen, not one with a numpad.
A lot of them are mechanical, Tenkeyless (TKL) which is my favourite size, and is _literally_ a numpadless form factor.
You might say, that they don't count because they're mechanical, or expensive, or loud, or some other argument, non of which are unavoidable, but, if you want to argue concern about comfort of keyboards and long term use, I think you should seriously consider investing in a half decent mechanical. There are ergonomic form factors, and variety of sizes and key counts from 40% to over 100% (of standard).
You can get a cheap TKL for as little as £30, or hand build one like some of mine for £500-700+ and everything in between.
If you happen to like Thinkpad keyboards, Lenovo on and off sells external USB and bluetooth keyboards with the Thinkpad brand. They feel identical to laptops of the same era when they are manufactured, and they have the same embedded trackpoint and buttons.
I am typing this on an old USB one that greatly resembles the keyboard on an X200 or T400 laptop. This old thing even has the little touchpad from those days and therefore identical palm rest areas. I also have a newer bluetooth unit that is just like my T495, minus the touchpad. I miss the touchpad even though I use the trackpoint for all pointer movement. I like to keep edge-scrolling enabled on the touchpad on my old keyboard as well as on my actual laptop.
One caveat is that the trackpoint acceleration profile seems different for these external devices, so switching back end forth between these and the built-in Thinkpad controls can feel clumsy while your fingers and eyes readjust.
You're welcome. For reference, the noise and travel issues you mention have solutions in mech world, wireless boards exist, althought I don't have any myself so I can't say much on them.
Lookup Vortex brand keyboards. I have a Pok3r which has no numpad and is quite small in footprint but still has a full size layout for letter keys. It is weird at first not having dedicated arrow keys but once you are used to it it's quite comfortable.
I have the Vortex Race 3, which basically is a Pok3r, but with dedicaded arrow keys, F-keys, home/end/pgup/pgdn, and still squeezes all into a very compact form factor. The Pok3r is useless to me, absolutely can't get used to the additional combos required to get to frequently-used keys.
You can learn to left mouse. If your mouse is ambidextrous already, move it over to the left of your keyboard and try it for 30-60 minutes a day for a couple weeks. I like left-mousing at work and right-mousing at home (strange I know), and when I left mouse, I prefer the buttons flipped (index finger always is 'left click', etc).
If your mouse is right-hand specific, try getting a ambidextrous one next time. Most of the ambidextrous mice these days are gaming mice, but they work fine for pushing cursors around too.
I think I pressed a key (any key) on my number pad less than ten times in 6 years. I don't have any use case for a numberpad. Maybe if I still played Nethack.
The offset typing causes repetitive stress injuries which are very painful and can end a career. For people that use mice, one handed trackballs, a one handed touch pad, doubly so on external keyboards because it forces the mouse hand abnormally out and away from the body. All that for a bunch of keys I haven't used in years because they are useless as a programmer.
Laptop manufactures who don't offer keyboards without numpads, to me, care so little about their customers that their laptops aren't worth shit. I'm looking specifically are all laptops > 14" from system 76. If they want to be taken seriously as a manufacturer, they should consider a line of 15" or 16" laptops that aren't going to leave people in pain, considering changing careers. Of course, I only use the internal keyboard when absolutely necessary and can't use an external with an external display, and it still makes that big of a difference.
I'm also a numpad fan, and wouldn't have a keyboard without one.
Aside from making it much faster to enter numbers, I also really like it for gaming - instead of using WASD, I use the numpad 4,8,6,2). This means a whole bunch of other keys are right there for use by the same hand, e.g. 7/9 for jump, "/" for throw, 1 for crouch, 3 for prone etc. I realise this is controversial tho!
But I've been amazed at how many programmers don't like to have them. Why?