As an user I literally run into this usecase: Germany, local bus company, I've run out of cash, so I just bought online ticket via Deutsche Bahn app (it's a QR code). When you enter the bus, you need to scan this QR code, but for some stupid/smart reason Apple Pay triggers and hides this screen, and of course when you try to debug Apple Pay screen is gone, QR code is back. Trying to explain to the bus driver that this was some stupid Apple Pay interaction was quite an experience. Lesson learned: make sure to always have some spare coins with you.

Ha. Unless you cannot Pay cash anymore within the bus, e.g. Chemnitz https://www.cvag.de/de/Tickets_Tarife/Bargeldlos_10842.html

Did you have your ticket in the Apple wallet or the DB App? I have found that DB Scanners don’t like the wallet version.

Hey, I may know some people who’d be very interested in these failure modes on the team. Which bus company? Any chance you know what terminal they use? Would you mind getting in touch off HN to discuss further?

I have encountered the same problem with the tunnelbana in Stockholm. Normally I use a card, but on a few occasions I have left it at home or forgotten to top it up, and bought a ticket with the app.

When it wasn't scanning and I took my phone off the scanner, I briefly glimpsed the Apple Pay screen before it animated away, so I realised I was "holding it wrong", and was able to get it to scan by holding it at a different angle to keep the NFC sensor at the top of the phone away from reader, but I can imagine a less technically minded user than myself might have serious problems.

I don't know anything about the scanner or NFC standards used by this system, sorry.

> I have encountered the same problem with the tunnelbana in Stockholm.

It took me a second to realize you weren't talking about the NFC chip, which is codenamed Stockholm ;)

Same problem in France, public train company SNCF. All year long I had to ask the (human) controllers to open the glass barrier supposed to be opened with a QR scanner in the gates.

Same flawed workflow. Show QR to scanner => not work => check phone on apple pay mode with credit cards => repeat => ask the (human) controllers.

You can ping me @ lucas@concpt.io

I encourage developers not to discuss issues with Apple via these kind of back door channels. It only encourages them to keep things locked down and inaccessible for everyone.

If Apple wants feedback from its developers, it should try actually listening to all of them, not just the ones that make enough noise on social media.

(I'm assuming the parent comment is from someone at Apple. If not, my point still stands in general.)

Isn’t that half of reason why HN exists? How many times have there been issues with FB, Google, etc where the poster ask for help on HN? HN may be the only connection to SV insiders that many users have.

This isn’t to say HN is a good replacement for a proper support channel, but sometimes you need a little help. These are big companies, so these small issues (for Apple) don’t always make it to the right team. The parent poster here isn’t even the dev of the app in question. How are they supposed to know where to report that?

I think the point being made was that using this ad-hoc channel perpetuates it and prevents an actual way to contact people at Apple from forming.

In my opinion, Apple's over-excitable field detection (which considers every NFC field a potential for an Apple Pay transaction, not just payment and transit terminals) is mostly a nuisance, at least for Face ID phones.

Maybe the QR code scanner and the NFC POS have been installed in a poor way that make the two options collide. Since QR code could be provided from general purpose apps (browser, photo gallery) there is no software solution to this.

A lot of transit gates do this because you can use Apple Pay or a contactless credit card directly on the gate without going through the intermediate stage of a ticket.

This is very handy in Chicago if you are making a single leg journey. Due to Apple Pay’s privacy architecture it can’t recognize transfers and always charges full fare.

> Due to Apple Pay’s privacy architecture it can’t recognize transfers and always charges full fare.

I don't think this is the case—in London, I'm pretty sure you can pay with Apple Pay and have your fares "capped" (so you never pay more than the price of a full-day ticket). You can also set up an account with your card number (the one on your physical card) and view any recent journeys you've made.

https://www.ventrachicago.com/how-to/mobile-wallet-apps/ This claims PAYG works with transfers now, although I thought it always did for me (but I don't have an iDevice).

This has nothing to do with Apple's architecture but is probably a limitation of the transit agency's backend systems.

The card number of a given card on a given device does not change between taps for Apple Pay. Otherwise, tapping for refunds would not work, among other things.

Yes! This was the exact same use case we had!

I recently learned about the "technical support incident" help you can get from Apple, you get two such incidents included with your annual developer program - maybe worth a go, I believe they respond to you quite quickly from what I've heard: https://developer.apple.com/support/technical/

Apple customers surrender their phones, and experiences, to Apple's custody. That walled garden is discussed every day here.

But I wonder how much 'normal' Apple consumers realize how shoddy some of that custody really is.

I bet your customers blamed you for that bug, not Apple?

Of course they gonna blame the creator of the app, not Apple. The customer has no idea about the development and what entitlements are available or not. Why should they blame Apple, I don't understand your point.

As the creator, notify your users about it and there you can blame Apple as long as you want. But if the users are not notified, they don't really know that the creators are waiting for Apple.

@djxfade: I might know some people on the team who’d be very interested to hear about it. what’s the best way to get in touch?

Unrelated question as an outside observer: how is it possible to get interactions like these as opposed to "file a feedback"?

Hi, you can contact me on thomas(at)apility(dot).no